Current Project: A Killer Pinot NoirStatus: Re-writing the first 8,000 words!
Or, what do you do when your protagonist suddenly jumps out of a nice safe third person narrative and starts telling her story in first person?
But first, a gratuitous snow picture taken yesterday at my house.
And now back to our regularly scheduled ramble.
Here's the thing. I'm not particularly fond of reading first person POV. However, since a lot of mysteries, especially in the amateur sleuth sub-genre, tend to be written in first person, I will read it. Grudgingly. Don't ask me why I have this aversion to first person, because I don't have a clue. I just do.
And I really don't write first person POV. Guess you saw that coming, huh? I've read some writers who go on and on about how easy it is to write in first person. Let me just say that I'm not one of them. I've tried it a few times and found it...limiting...and frustrating. I immediately revert to third person and cruise along comfortably, like driving a 1956 Belair Convertible down Highway 1 from Carmel-By-the-Sea to San Simeon in the middle of July. Part of the problem, I think, is that I tend to see stories through the eyes of multiple characters and find it natural to want to tell some of the story from their viewpoints. Hard to do in first person. Not impossible, or so I've been told, but you couldn't prove it by me.
Imagine my surprise when, at about day 5 of my modified NaNoWriMo, my main character starts demanding to have her say--in first person. I decided not to fight it, thinking that if I just kept going with the flow that I'd be able to come back later and fix the anomaly of these--surely--few pages in first person POV. Ha, I say! She went on like this for the next couple of days before I could successfully wrestle the story back into third person narrative again. A couple of days later, you guessed it, we're back in first person. This went on for the entire month, ping-ponging back and forth.
I'm now at a point where I need to choose a POV and stick with it, because it's just going to get harder from here to be able to go back and fix things later. I've gone back to the beginning of the story and started rewriting in third person. If that doesn't work out, I'll (reluctantly) try the same thing in first person and see what happens. At only 8,000 words in, though, I don't feel so bad making this experiment. I've never had this particular problem before -- and I hope I never have it again. I was beginning to feel like my character had multiple personality disorder!
So what about you? Do you have a favorite POV, or a POV in which you simply can't write? Is the POV you use dictated by the genre in which you write? Or are you free to choose whatever style you feel comfortable writing? How do you decide on POV, if you have that luxury?
My characters and I would all like to know. :-)
PS. Happy Holidays to All!!
19 comments:
For me, it really depends on the story. My YA stories usually talk to me in first person. My adult stories usually come out in 3rd person. I think you have to go with the story on this one. It wants to come first person, so keep going with that.
Your reading preference may end up being different than what you write. Have you read Elaine Viets--she writes 3rd person novels that feel like first person. You might read a few to see if 3rd person limited is a good compromise.
Debbie, I think all beginning writers have this problem. Which POV do I use?
The first two books I wrote were first person mysteries. Because at the time I was reading Sue Grafton's Kinsey Milhone mysteries which were first person. I didn't have a problem with it as they had only minimal romance.
But once I turned to writing romance, I found the story was so much richer by having it in third person and giving the hero and heroine's POV's. And I occasionally add a secondary POV depending on the story.
Interesting topic!
And I agree with Wavy, it depends on the story.
Beautiful snow photo and at long last, the POV ramble!
I am going to gingerly feel my way out onto a limb here, slowly... oops, okay, steady as we go... and say that I don't think it depends on the story. I think it depends on the writer. I think most stories could be told in either style, but you're right that it's a good thing to make a decision before you go much further.
Back in ye old confession days, every story I wrote was first person. I loved writing it and I have always enjoyed reading it. Even today when I seldom have the luxury of using first person, I will sometimes write a few pages in that style to get to know the heroine better. After all, when I write first person, it feels as though I am writing me. I get a sense of immediacy and fun I sometimes lose in third person or at least have to struggle harder to find.
I have a good friend who hates reading first person. She says what's the use of worrying about a hero or heroine if they're still alive to tell you the story? I guess she has a point. However, I find the worry for the reader comes from the character making other less drastic than life or death decisions.
It's very interesting that your current heroine is getting annoyed with being pushed back on the shelf for you to tell her story when she surely feels she could do a better job of it! You might want to keep an eye on this girl...
I say do it both ways. Stick with the one that's fun and that feels right to YOU (remember, ultimately, you are boss. No, really, you are.) Wavy's right about your reading preference being different than what you write -- mine is. I enjoy reading first person, I write almost exclusively in third.
And her suggestion of reading an author who handles it well is a good one. And Paty's observation about the power of both the hero and heroine POV in a romance is so true.
Keep us posted.
I do both, depends on the story.
In romance I usually do two POV characters (hero and heroine) but very deep POV so it *feels* like two 1st person POVs.
YA is sooo 1st person - after all, it is ALL about ME!
My tie-ins are consistently 3rd omniscent (sp?) because that's what the genre convention is, and because as readers/viewers we are used to "seeing" those stories from that POV. It feels the way we expect it to.
The cozy series I'm working on now (turned in Book #2 last week - YAY!!) is 1st person. Again the convention of the genre - and because it "feels" right.
While I agree with Alice that you write the POV with which you are most happy, some kinds of stories demand a different approach. I think my natural inclination is for 1st with all the limitations and hoops it entails. But I can do 3rd, and find it extremely useful for stories that require multiple viewpoint characters.
Wow, that's a tough question, Debbie. I write both comfortably, so I don't know how to answer. It does depend on the writer, and as Chris said, it can depend on the story, too.
The first book I ever wrote was written in 3rd, then with the advice from my agent at the time, I rewrote the entire book in 1st. It was a good exercise and I can now write both without a hitch.
My Knight's Curse book started out in 3rd person, but I ended up writing it from only the heroine's POV. I figured I best switch to first, so I did. The writing went much more smoothly after that.
My WIP, Mystic Taxi, is written in 3rd from 2 main characters' POVs. I also have the villain's POV, but it's spotty. The story's not a romance, but the two MCs are partners, so I wanted both to have their say. 8^)
I have found that my first person books tend to be shorter than my 3rd person books. I think it's partly because the 1st person can be limiting in scope, at least for me.
Good luck with what you choose to do, and experiment. Like have your character write you a letter. That's what Diane Mott Davidson does when she's trying to figure out a character. Worth a shot. 8^)
...when I write first person, it feels as though I am writing me.
And this is exaclty why I can't write first person. My characters aren't "me", and therefore, I have a really hard time getting into first person. I think that's also the reason I have a hard time reading first person. Whenever I see the "I", I'm thinking me or the author...not the character.
I write in deep 3rd in all my books. I write from both the hero/heroine/villain/secondary character POV. Your post made me curious about how many POVs I use, so I counted the books I've sold. ;)
STOLEN FURY - 5 different POVs
STOLEN HEAT - 6 POVs
STOLEN SEDUCTION - 6 POVs
Marked - 6 POVs
That's just off the top of my head, so the numbers may be higher. And I use one POV per scene; I don't bounce back and forth. As you can see...I like multiple POVs in a story, esp. when there's some kind of suspense angle.
That said...I'd say go with your gut. POV is pretty easy to change in revisions, so try it out and see which one sticks.
I've never tried writing in first. I have done exercises of writing in first to get a better feel for my character which is often very handy. Any point in repeating what everyone else has said?
Depends. You. Character. Comfort.
I recently read a book that was written in two first person POVs. Each character's voice was so distinctive, I could instantly tell who was speaking. The Poisonwood Bible is written in about 5 different first person POVs. Fun to read.
A regular series I've read has the main protag written in first person in some of his books and third in others. I read these before I started writing and didn't notice the difference. Now I do and I don't know which I like better. All awesome.
I like Chris's comment about YA. "It's ALL about ME!" So true.
Wavy -- thanks for the recommendation and the advice! I've never read Elaine Viets, but I'll definitely check her work out.
Paty -- I think the richness of multiple POVs is why I'm drawn to that rather than first person. Interesting that both you and Wavy feel it depends on the story.
Alice -- interesting that you enjoy reading and writing first person, yet it sounds like you're writing almost exclusively in third person. Is that because of the genre/expectations of the publisher? I guess that's what I was really trying to ask, but not very effectively.
Do publishers expect a certain POV for a certain type of story? I know that the majority of "amateur sleuth" type mysteries that I've read over the years have been first person, but there are exceptions.
After all, when I write first person, it feels as though I am writing me.
And that may be one of the reasons why I don't like writing first person. Of course my characters will always have part of me in them, but that's as much as I'm comfortable with revealing. LOL
Chris -- YA is sooo 1st person - after all, it is ALL about ME! LOL! So true. :-)
Your approach is very pragmatic. How much leeway do you feel you have within a genre? For instance, your cozy series is in first person, but did you feel that was pretty much a hard and fast requirement, or was it more your choice based on, as you say, the conventions of the genre? That is, if you'd decided not to use first person, would it have made a difference with your publisher?
Debbie, you asked Chris this question but I'm going to throw in my three cents (inflation raises its ugly head...)
"For instance, your cozy series is in first person, but did you feel that was pretty much a hard and fast requirement, or was it more your choice based on, as you say, the conventions of the genre?"
You asked what she felt and I can't respond to that but I can say that I read several cozies written in the third person leading me to deduce it's not, generally speaking, a hard and fast rule. However, it might have been for Chris' publisher or it might have been for Chris' view on what a cozy should be, in other words, her interpretation of the genre's voice (putting the decision in the lap of the author. Notice how cleverly I worked back to my original point from yesterday.)
Thanks Alice! So, basically, what it comes down to is -- it depends. :-)
Seriously, I can see, based on yours and everyone else's comments, that there is no one right approach or answer. And that makes sense for a business that's also a creative endeavor. With more experience I'm sure I'll learn how to trust my own instincts.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
Karen -- How interesting that your agent would suggest a rewrite in first person. I can see how having done that would give you a feeling of confidence. I also find it interesting that your first person POV books tend to be shorter. I think that's a fear I didn't know I had about writing in first person -- not that the book would be short, exactly, but that maybe I'd exhaust everything the character had to say too soon.
Elisabeth, wow - that's a lot of POVs, but not, I think, too many when you consider the length of the books you write. Do you find that the majority of the scenes are from one or two POVs, with the rest of the POVs having a smaller number of scenes, or does it about equal out? (And did that sentence make *any* kind of sense?)
I can't wait to read Stolen Fury! :-)
Depends. You. Character. Comfort.
LOL! Ah, but Kendra, repetition is a great learning tool! :-)
I've never read The Poisonwood Bible, but I'll have to check it out.
I think that's a fear I didn't know I had about writing in first person -- not that the book would be short, exactly, but that maybe I'd exhaust everything the character had to say too soon.
I don't know that others experience writing POV the same way I do, but for me, since I can't go off and explore the interactions other characters have with each other, there's less to write. And I think also there's a danger of being too self-indulgent with the 1st person internalizations. Their thoughts can become tedious after a while. Which is why 1st POV is more challenging to write. You have to be more creative in how you express the character, his/her thoughts, actions, and observations.
Merry Christmas! 8^)
Yes, Debbie. Most of my scenes are from the hero/heroine POV, with secondary characters and villains being a much smaller percentage overall. Secondary character/villain scenes also tend to be a lot shorter than the hero/heroine scenes.
When I sold SF, it was 110K words. In revisions we cut about 5K words - not full scenes, just trimming scenes here and there. I was okay with it because it didn't change the flow of the book at all, but as you can probably tell from my word count, I like to explore those secondary characters in any POV. ;)
Hi, Debbie! Just catching up with the blog. Very interesting blog and discussion.
I'm not sure that anyone else picked up on this specifically, as it was one of your later comments:
And that may be one of the reasons why I don't like writing first person. Of course my characters will always have part of me in them, but that's as much as I'm comfortable with revealing. LOL
I remember feeling that way for a long time. It even took me quite a while to feel comfortable sharing my writing at our critique meetings. Even though I'd written articles for newsletters that were critiqued by multiple people, my novels were different. The articles weren't revealing a part of me, but my stories did. Perhaps a part of me that people would ridicule and laugh at. Yes, connected to unpleasant childhood memories. However, as I became more confident in my writing and less caring about what others said, I was more willing to put my work "out there." After all, what good is getting published if no one reads your stories. :)
To date, my stories have been in third person, so my prejudices are still very much in place. Unless the author has a very distinctive and/or interesting voice, I'm not crazy about a lot of first person stories. HOWEVER, I think that's because the writer didn't take the care with the story that perhaps they should have. They may have written, "I woke up with a start. I turned off the alarm. I rubbed my eyes. I realized the sky was very blue..." Don't give me a list of what you do when you wake up.
However, give me something interesting and I could buy into it... "I jerked from an eerie nightmare to heart-thumpingly awake. Something was in my room. Nothing was visible in the crisp, clear light from the full moon, but the scent of danger clung to the hand-crocheted lace trim of the quilt that covered my body from frigid toes to the tremble of my chin..."
This may be similar to what Elisabeth said. If you're very much aware that the first person POV is the author, perhaps it's time for some deep editing.
On the other hand, I've used first person POV as an exercise to get into the head and heart of my characters, and that's been very effective at giving me insights into the motivation behind their actions.
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