I love apple pie.Mmm...correction. I love my mother's homemade apple pie.
Yesterday was Gremlin #3's second birthday. We had a family party complete with too much food, lots of presents, cake and ice cream and balloons (he loved the balloons!). What did my mother bring? You guessed it, apple pie.
It's no secret my husband doesn't think my mother can cook. He grew up with the type of mother who slaved in the kitchen from morning to night and made everything from scratch - rolls, cookies, cakes, refried beans, tortillas, French sauces...everything. I will never live up to my MIL's cooking. Which is okay, I don't want to spend hours in the kitchen, I have other things to do. My mother, however, cooks less than I do, and my husband has never been thrilled with her entree choices. So when she walked in the door and said, "I brought pie!", his first reaction was a roll of his eyes toward me that meant, "Oh great, she went to Costco. Why did she get a pie when she knows we're having cake?" But - of course - he was wrong. She made the pie from scratch, and cooked it with love and care for her kids and grandkids.
After the party was over, after everyone went home and DH went scrounging for food, he decided to go for a piece of her homemade pie. He scooped it up, sat down on the couch with the bowl, and after two bites, turned to me with surprise in his eyes and said, "This is really good." Now, he's complimented my mother's cooking before - but only when she's in the room and it's the right thing to do - but I can honestly say I don't think I've ever heard him compliment her cooking when it wasn't out of sheer politeness.
The moment made me think about critique partners and crits and what we hear from our writing peers on a daily basis. How honest are they really being? Critique relationships are hard. A lot of times you develop strong friendships with your critique partners, and those friendships can sometimes cause you to be less-than-honest than you might otherwise be with a stranger.
Case in point...about a year and a half ago, one of my critique partners was working on a book. She'd sent me the first six chapter or so to crit. I love her writing. She's very talented. And this particular premise was unique and interesting. The hook was so catching, I couldn't stop reading. I wanted more. I told her as much, but there was something about the story that kept throwing me off, and I couldn't put my finger on what it was. So I didn't bring it up. I decided to focus on the good even though I knew there was something wrong.
Then I went to Nationals in Reno, and I sat in on a workshop about plot braiding the romantic suspense given by Roxanne St.Claire and Gail Wilson. BAM! Lightbulb moment. What was bothering me was her two threads - the romance and the suspense - seemed to be separate strands - not connected. Without the romance, the suspense could have kept going. Without the supsense, the romance could have kept going...and in a romantic suspense, that just can't happen. They have to be woven together, one dependent on the other. So I came home from Nationals, completely excited to share this information with my CP. I finally knew what was bothering me about her book, and I was sure it would help. I sat down and wrote out a long email describing what I had learned and how it hit home. And then I sent it.
I didn't hear from her for two days. I got worried. When she finally IM'd, she admitted that she'd been absent because she'd spent the last two days crying about her book. I ... Felt ... Like ... Crap. Here, I thought I'd done the supportive CP thing - I'd given honest feedback about something I thought would help her book. Because I LOVED that book. I loved the characters and where the suspense plot was going. And I'd told her that as well. I learned a long time ago that even when you're giving constructive criticism, an "I love this!" and a "Great Line" go a long way in softening the blow. Plus, everyone loves to hear what they're doing well - even me. I never give compliments unless I really mean them, so everyone who knows me knows when I'm telling the truth. But in this case - in the end - being honest only created a huge mess.
There were other things going on for my CP then - things I didn't know about - but I happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back. She ended up taking some time off from writing and is only now recently back, stronger than ever. I'm happy for her - she finally finished that book over Christmas and is working on the next one - but we aren't critique partners anymore. We're friends, we chat about life and writing now and then, but we don't crit each others work. Since this happened, she hasn't asked me to crit anything else, and she hasn't offered to crit anything for me. And for a very long time, that situation caused me to questioned my critique abilities. How honest was too honest? Did I cross a line? Should I have kept my mouth shut about my honest opinion and not said anything?
This situation has stayed with me long after the fact. Everytime I send a critique, I cringe. Not because I don't believe in the comments I've put forth, but in how they will be received. I don't know everything, but then, what critique partner does? The definition of "critique" is a serious examination and judgment of something. How can you give a critique if you aren't being completely honest about your opinion?
It's true, I also cringe every time I open a crit from one of my CP's, and sometimes I get upset and close the document and think they're out of their minds, but I always come back to it, and nine times out of ten the comments they've given make my book stronger. I WANT my critique partners to be honest with me. If I'm not doing something right, if my plot points are confusing, if my characters are unsympathetic, if my RS isn't woven...I want to know. Critique partners aren't doing me any favors if they're pulling punches and telling me what I want to hear. I'll never improve unless they're completely honest.
There are instances when being polite is the way to go - like when my hubby tells my mother her cooking is great even when it isn't. Sometimes you're pleasantly surprised, as my hubby was tonight. But when it comes to critiques, I don't want polite. I want honest and open, and I want my CP's to rip the thing to shreds and show me where my weak spots are.
How about you? How honest are you when you give critiques? Do you go all out? Or do you pull punches because you're afraid of hurting feelings?
13 comments:
I don't think you were too honest with your cp. I think you were too honest with the wrong person at the wrong time. There's a difference. Over the weekend, I nervously sent off a crit I did on short deadline--I hadn't had time to soften it with a 50/50 blend of positive/negative and I just bam bam bam fired off what I saw as problem areas focusing on what she asked me to focus on. I waited, afraid that I'd possibly hurt her feelings. I've been accused of being too blunt before--but this author wrote back thanking me for my honesty and saying that's what she was looking for. She's a professional and she was able to separate my comments from my opinion of the book as a whole and from her opinion of herself as a person.
Early in the process, I had a lot of trouble seperating any negative feedback from my self-esteem and worth as a person. I would have been the wrong person at the wrong time. Now, I welcome honest feedback that lets me focus on things to work on and too many platitudes irritate me. I think what helps is being honest with each other about what you're looking for and what you can handle. My regular CP and I want each other to be blunt and constructive. Which doesn't mean that we don't sometimes need chocolate after reading a email :) But setting the expectations for each particular critique can help (i.e., I don't want to focus on plot right now, I'm more concerned with character/narrative etc). So, you just have to choose the right person to be honest with, and sometimes, even people who SAY they want honesty just don't--those are the toughest situations.
Being critiqued and critiquing are hard. You put yourself out there in both. BUT, as much as it sometimes hurts- I want honesty. A writer isn't going to get better if everyone who reads their stuff says it's wonderful and their wonderful. Nothing, I don't care who the writer, is perfect. Everyone has a off day when they are writing.
Luckily my CP's and I have been working together for a long time, and we know the other is expecting nothing but the blunt truth. Of course the - loved this part, this made me laugh needs to be thrown in too. I want to know where I can make it better. Sometimes it might take a day for it to sink in, but I know in the long run they want my book to be great as much as I want theirs to be great.
Good critique partners are hard to find, but when you do - They're GOLD!
Well, good for you, Eli, you do wade in where---
Thanks for a good, honest blog.
First, a story. One time a male writer whose talent nobody questioned, read a short story at a critique meeting. The female character was having a time of personal doubt. For some reason, I can't recall, a fishbowl broke and the water went everywhere. The fish ended up on the floor flopping around. And the woman went on exploring her internal problems.
I wrote on critique notes, "Pick up the fish." So did my friend though as she was sitting across the room, I didn't know it. Nick keeps reading, the fish keeps flopping. I write again, "Pick up the FISH!" But now I am beginning to think of what his character could do. She could fill a glass with water and put the fish in the glass and what a lovely metaphor for the trapped feeling she has about her own life.
Fish still flopping. BY now I am writing in big letters. "PICK UP THE DAMN FISH!"
The story ends. The fish, assumedly, is dead. I didn't hear the last part because I was so worried about the fish. Me and my friend jumped down his throat the moment he stopped reading and looked up to see what we thought. "Why didn't she pick up the fish?"
That's my critique story. Btw, the fish hadn't been important to the story, Nick said, and he'd just forgotten about it. I assume in rewrites, he saved the fish.
What does that have to do with anything? Not much. But I enjoyed Eli's pie story so much, I wanted to throw in one of my own!
Another man in that same group wrote little family interest kind of pieces for a radio talk show he participated in at the university. He would bring these little gems AFTER HE'D AIRED THEM. There was no need to critique because he'd already "printed" them, so to say. That always stunned me because as you say Eli, to critique is to offer judgment after serious consideration. What's the point when it's already done?
I am honest. I also hope I am kind. I don't know everything, I'm sure I'm wrong on occasion. But I take it seriously and I try my best to give the writer something to work with. I want honest feedback when I ask for it and like Wavy, platitudes don't get me anywhere new or better. I want to know what someone likes as well as what they don't like so when I cut, I leave the likable parts alone. My daughter usually reads the first three chapters of each book before the proposal goes and she always has good advice and I always consider it and most always take it. You have to trust someone who critiques you or there's no point.
You didn't do anything wrong, Eli. You couldn't know how fragile your friend was. You offered constructive help she couldn't handle--it happens and now you know this about her. I'm sure it hurt you both that this happened, but you can't always foresee the end result of every action. Wavy said all this a lot better.
I'm off to rainy California!
Alice
Good blog, Eli. Critique is a big deal to me. I spend a lot of time on the critiques I do because I feel it's extremely important to comment in a way that's helpful and not hurtful. Your friend just wasn't ready for honesty. Hopefully she'll be ready when she gets her first revision letter from an editor. Talk about blunt! Yikes! But this is a business and your editor's job isn't to make your life a bowl of cherries. It's to work with you to ensure your book is the best it can be.
I have a critique group that I've been with for about 8 or 9 years now. I've lost count. We've got our system down to a science and it works. Critiques are always honest and use the "sandwich" method of praise and criticism. When a critique is nothing but negative, there's a greater chance the writer will dismiss it completely. Couched with praise, the writer's mind opens to the possibility that whoever did the critique knows what he or she is talking about.
I was once in a romance critique group through RWA's KOD chapter. The coordinator was supposed to pair up writers at equal levels of experience, but some people lie because they figure they'll get more help from a more experienced writer. Talk about the need for honesty! It was a nightmare situation. I won't go into detail here, but our group's intention wasn't to focus all our energy on teaching one member how to write. The group disbanded after a couple of sessions. I was furious with the coordinator for not placing the new writer in a group at her own level where she could learn the craft along with her peers.
I don't do critique as much as I used to. The time factor is enormous. But I'm pleased to have a great group who know me and my writing, and who are exceptional writers. Most of them are now published. We helped each other get there.
Karen
Yes, Wavy. I agree. Setting expectations at the beginning of a crit relationship is crutial. It's important everyone understands what the other person needs or wants in a crit. This particular CP and I had been critting for each other for a year and a half already, so I didn't feel the need to pull punches. I think you're right that it was a combination of wrong person/wrong time, and it's not anything I could have ever forseen.
I agree, Paty. Good CPs are GOLD! Another CP and I have had this discussion over and over. I love her dearly, she's become a great friend, but I always want her to be honest and tell it to me like it is. Luckily, she feels the same.
ROFL, Alice. That's funny. I'd have been writing "Pick up the damn fish!" too. What was the purpose of the fish in teh scene if it wasn't really important?
Each person in my crit group has strengths when it comes to critiquing. While I'm good at most craft issues - grammar, structure, etc. - I happen to be really good at big picture feedback. However, those are the comments that seem to be the hardest for writers to take. Alice, I love your honesty and I appreciate it. You've given me great feedback and a different perspective on my work. And yes, you are kind in your crits, so never worry about that.
Thanks for the reassurance I'm not a horrible person. LOL
Karen, you're lucky to be in a group you love for so long. One of my other CPs has tried the KOD crit groups a number of times and has struck out each time. She's run into the same problem as you - grouping new writers with more experienced. New writers need a lot more help and encouragement to learn the craft, and for a more experienced writer who is past that, it can be frustrating. She's since dropped out of the KOD crit groups.
Thought-provoking post, Elisabeth. Mmmm...I'm pretty honest. I try to be nice about it and do complimenting first on the strong things with my CPs writing. Then tell them how I think the work could be better.
But how totally, completely honest I am depends on the CP. Beginning writers often have shakier egos, and more to fix in their writing. In a case like that I just hit on the weakest points, not all the weak points at once.
I've felt nearly destroyed when a thicker-skinned CP has roughly critiqued my work. As a medium-thin skinned person, I try to give my opinion gently yet firmly, which is how I prefer to get comments on my stuff.
The above said, I'm trying to thicken my skin. I know in this business I'll need it, just as I need honest opinions on my work. With everything going on in my life over the past year and a half, I took nearly a year off from seriously persuing fiction publication. But I'm back, with a passion to publish, so I want honesty because I want to get there.
Wavy -- I think you hit the nail on the head. It depends on where a writer is in their career as to how honest a critique they can really take. The closer to publication, and the more serious they are about it, the more I think they are able to separate themselves from their work. Good point.
Paty -- I agree with you. I want my CP to be honest with what they think I'm doing wrong, or where the story feels off, but I also want them to be honest about where the story is right on and is especially good or funny, or insert positive word here _______.
Alice -- have a great time in California and Mexico you lucky dog you.
I loved your fish story. You have a little ditty for every walk of a writer's life, doncha? It's fun to hear them.
Hey, chiming in late here...
Flat out honesty is awesome. How else can a writer grow unless their CP rips them a new one? I remember when I did a short crit for you Eli, and didn't say one thing about what I liked. You ripped me a new one. LOL
I had no idea that anyone needed to put what they like in a crit, because to me, if you marked what was wrong, the rest must be wonderful, so no worries. :) Big misconception, that. But now I know how to give a more positive crit, while still being open and honest. I used to almost puke sending my stuff to be critiqued; but it's getting a lot easier, and like Danita said, you have to grow a thick skin. So bite me baby, my skin is now tougher than... Oh who am I kiddin? I'm still working on the whole thicker skin thing, but it is getting better.
Now I just need to get some writing done so I can have something to send out to be critiqued.
Great Post Eli!
Piper - I ripped you a new one? I didn't know I had such powers.
Evil Blog Overlord becomes CP The Great - Ripper Of New Ones.
(It's late, and I've had a glass of wine...)
Seriously, your crit was great. You were brutally honest, and that's what I wanted. But yeah, a few compliments here and there do soften those daggers to the forehead. ;) FWIW, the first time I critted at the RWC crit loop, I was "ripped a new one" for not complimenting anything in the chapter. I had no idea that was necessary. What? Don't they know if I don't comment on it, it means it's fine? Apparantly not. ;) And I learned that loud and clear the first time someone critted for me.
Hi, all!
Sorry for the late comment. I'm catching up on the blog and it looks like I may actually get Blogger to post this. Keep your fingers crossed!
Sounds like a consensus on critiquing. I also like the sandwich approach of commenting on some things I especially liked as well as what doesn't work for me.
Love your new titles, Eli! EBO and CP the Great - RONO. Though I have to also join the chorus of don't continue to beat yourself up over the reaction of your former CP when your intent was to help.
OK, back to my "to do" list! Eli, maybe you could expand the duties of your RONO title to e-mail me a kick in the fanny every once in a while to make sure I'm on track with my projects!
Great blogs, ladies!
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